Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 15:48:16 GMT -8
I wasn't trying to impose on anybodies stuff. My point was. . . this is where I have always been. And despite what you feel, this is how I have been serving through out the entire time. I don't need to be anyone's liaison to anything. I was just pointing out the obvious.
Furthermore, I have stepped up to everything this group of writers and characters that they have ASKED me to do.
Steward of Mon Cal
Leading Senator on the Senate for Mon Cal (one of 3 or 4 dedicated writers in the Senate)
[And with this I was the main drafter of the Constitution of]
asst Headmaster on Corellia
Watchmen (which, you didn't bring me in Adi, I was freely selected BEFORE you were decided as Lead)
Investigator staff on Dac (which I was waiting at for everyone to show up and went on several investigations on the OOC reuests, because people signed up and things fell through), though no one showed up, i still served by investigating.
All because you guys asked for someone to step up, and I stepped up. Now I am all for spreading the wealth and allow for other writers (if there are any) to fill these roles. I am a busy guy who loves Star Wars and think many of you are awesome writers and I loved writing with you guys. I don't like my contributions being continually downplayed.
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Adi
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Post by Adi on Apr 28, 2013 15:54:55 GMT -8
No no no, my friend. Your contributions are, and have been, very good. Not trying to downplay your role at all. Just pointing out that the Watch has their liaison.
Honestly, and Ive been pondering this for a few days now...What about appointing people who are willing to write solo and play watchmen...and let the current Watch *who seems like they are team-based, and want to be more proactive* the Jedi Response Team role? Yes, that would include me as well. Just tossing it out there, since we kinda seem to be at odds a little bit as to what we need the Watch to do here on JvS.
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Mike Frantz
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Post by Mike Frantz on Apr 28, 2013 15:57:11 GMT -8
Will they aren't downplayed. I for one appreciate everything you have done for the Jedi order and Corellia but you have to cool it a little bro, they will do what thy want and when we feel left out we can go find the nearest bar and have a few drinks, how does that sound?
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 16:15:02 GMT -8
Mikey, find me a drink. I am not mad, I am just tired of this group of writers reinventing the wheel. I am just trying to help and point out the apparent without having to dance around it. I have seen a lot worse said and down over the last five years by the same writers. I wish we could set up a survey monkey or the like and simply put things to a vote, close it. go with popular vote. write it down, archive it. and move forward. Many of the things we talk about right now are things we talked about and hashed out a few short months ago; like Jago and Aer have now recognized. I just don't like exercises of repetition and futility. To be more productive with my post, and a bit less whinny: idk about this strike team. . .cool thought; philosophically speaking?. . . . The only issue that we have discovered with the Sector partitioning of the Watch is, again, the lack of activity in certain areas. (a) We need more baddies and (  we need them to allow us to be reciprocal with the hits and be hit. We were heading in the right direction there at the end, but were not allowed to let it come to fruition. . .again. |
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Adi
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Post by Adi on Apr 28, 2013 16:38:28 GMT -8
It seems as if the Jedi are the only ones willing to take a shot from the enemies....Mando were willing, but are scarce right now. The response team would be basically two small teams, geared for the mission at hand. Not a strike force....a response team....for situations like happened on Ossus last year. We do not attack, not even pre-emptive strike...we respond to an issue. That is kind of how I first envisioned the Watch, honestly.
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 16:45:25 GMT -8
Which sounds more Investigative to me. . .
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Dav Man'Sell
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Post by Dav Man'Sell on Apr 28, 2013 16:50:15 GMT -8
The Jedi already have a response team. It's called most of the Order.
Seriously, we shouldn't be having one main, official response team. Response teams should be ad hoc, based on location, available personnel, required skill sets, etc, because in a Galaxy this big, if you're going by canon, no individual team is capable of fulfilling such a role, and not including the other Jedi is inefficient and wasteful. Besides, one specialist response team that goes to all the trouble spots is inappropriate for the Jedi Order. We're not an army that needs spec ops. We're Jedi, the whole Order is spec ops. We all fight, we're all part of the team, we all have responsibility for doing the job that the response team would be meant to fill.
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Devlin Dewe
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Post by Devlin Dewe on Apr 28, 2013 17:04:29 GMT -8
While I think it'd be cool to have a "strike team" all Avengers style, I find myself agreeing with Dav. There are plenty of Jedi who are available and able to write as part of a response team. Yes, not everyone wants to be involved in battles (whether ground or fleet) or duels. But I can't help but wonder if designating a specific group of writers as the response team wouldn't alienate others.
Perhaps, instead of have a strike team, we just make a list of Jedi who'd want to participate in battles and duels? Then, when a situation arises, we can choose from who's closest and who's available--both IC and OoC--for a rapid response. Of course, we can always expand the list to include as much of the Order as want to participate in skirmishes.
Plus, this has the added bonus of not leaving the burden of defending Jedi worlds, or the galaxy as a whole, to a specific set of individuals (not that that's what I think anyone's saying, just trying to keep this idea from turning into that preemptively).
We need Jedi who are Watchmen, we need Jedi who are Investigators. We need diplomats, we need generals, admirals, and squadron leaders (or whole squadrons). We need Knights, Masters, Padawans, and Younglings. But, mostly, I think we just need Jedi. Jedi to defend whether with Form Zero, lightsaber, or the Force.
...Oh, and baddies. We need baddies who are willing to collaborate.
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Post by Alkor Centaris on Apr 28, 2013 17:20:26 GMT -8
We have no shortage of Antagonists. We have a shortage of Jedi who are willing to commit to the battle and work out finding themselves in roles best suited to their abilities. I'm not trying to be an ass- hear me out on this. If you're better at leading, lead. Don't throw yourself headlong into a conflict that is overwhelming to you. If you're not the best duelist, you should probably leave the unscripted dueling to someone who is better at it. If you want to fight, find a willing candidate and work out a reasonable fight with them, THEN make it happen. If you're a healer or a mechanic, stay on the sidelines. Supporting cast is just as important as main fighters.
Our biggest issue is that we all want to be big damn heroes, but most of us are jumping above and beyond what we're good at, looking for a shot at glory. And most of the time, glory seekers end up dead. We need to get more in tune with what we're good at as writers, and bring thst togetherin pursuit of a stronger group.
If you guys want to learn to fight, I'm sure Adi would be more than willing to give lessons.
Son'tir- I appreciate that you out forth a lot of time. So does Dav. So does Jago. So does Adi. We need to abolish the egos and attitudes of "I, me, mine." You're a good writer, as far as I'm concerned, if a little flashy at times (come on, man, that camera stunt on Honoghr had me facepalming so hard my hand went through my head) and with out a doubt, one of the more dedicated Jedi writers. Don't fall into the trap of "I put forth all this effort and no one takes me seriously." You're better than that. Put forth your effort in earnest, looking to make the best changes you can. Not every effort is gratifying at first. You have to commit to the long haul, or you won't ever see results. Trust me when I say, you will make a difference. Be patient.
Dav, as far as the whole of the Jedi being a response team, its a beautiful sentiment. Truly. But the Jedi as a whole haven't responded to anything in a long while. Its been a work in progress to unify them. We finally have. Now we're looking for conflict. One thing at a time. The idea of a response team, ooc, gives us a fighting chance at stabbing back at people who, for a long time, have out gunned us pathetically. Small steps before long strides. Today, a small force, tomorrow, the whole Order. Lets work together to build the team, rather than rely on some all stars to keep us in the game. We want to be the Heat, not the Lakers.
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 17:22:15 GMT -8
i think Dav has a point. We want to include more people, not partition them. Though I fight more for a codified and organized Order, we need to devise ways to get more people included.
But i do want to say we need better ways of encouragement and dividing up the work, assignments, and story arcs.
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 17:30:44 GMT -8
^I appreciate it, Alkor. And by far one of the most productive posts in OOC threads i have seen from you. For the record, I have been here in earnest for years (literally day one); only reason you haven't noticed. . .is because it was in earnest for years.
and the post was meant to be just that, a hilarity and a jab at Adi specifically. I thought it was funny and I have never written in that style before. I think it achieved its aims. so sweet.
I get you, and thanks for saying it.
And I will say, and echo, the Jedi are slow. but i don't think it is an institutional thing. More along with our leadership is distracted or bogged down to be less responsive to the goings on of the galaxy.
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Post by Alkor Centaris on Apr 28, 2013 17:43:48 GMT -8
I prefer the abrasive touch to keep people on edge. No one listens to the drunks anyway.
I've been discussing the hot topic of the Watch with Adi at length for some time, and one of our biggest reasons for supporting this notion of giving the Watch more freedom to act deals with the business of the council. We would have the ability to act decisively in the absence of a command from a higher authority. That is to say, we wouldn't have to wait for the Council in order to do everything- we would keep them informed, of course, and if they did not support our actions, they would have every right to veto them- but everything gets bogged down when we have to wait.
The other, more obvious things deal with combat heavy RP. We would have the ability to get involved in that kind of thing without having to wait for a vote. When Adi says "strike team" or "response team," he isn't trying to alienate the other Jedi. He's saying we would be the first responders. The people who are the first in, and the last out. Bridgeburners, if you know anything about the Malazan Book of the Fallen.
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 17:49:09 GMT -8
That, or just have a more expedient Council. ;-)
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Post by Alkor Centaris on Apr 28, 2013 17:56:15 GMT -8
Well, I'm all for that, beyond the fact that it would require a total makeover of the line up, and we would have to vote on Masters, blah blah blah...
I say just give me a lightsaber and I'm happy. Changing of the guard would require ousting the old guard, and we would have to make that happen. I have an idea...
Roll call, Masters on the high council present and active, check in. Anyone who doesn't show or isn't active in a reasonable amount of time is up for replacement. Anyone like that idea?
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 17:59:50 GMT -8
Sure. We can oust them, or add to them. But yes, the thought of restructuring was introduced before the crash. . .
Before the crash. . .
interesting. . . .:-P
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Post by Alkor Centaris on Apr 28, 2013 18:07:23 GMT -8
Well, it doesn't concern me much. I'm technically just a conscript with a shiny sword. Not even an initiate.
But I think a proper structure with active, contributing members would do us credit.
Beyond the council, of course, there is the issue of strife. We want wars, we want bad guys, we want to be Jedi, right? Lets put our brains together and figure this out. I think we should have an area dedicated to listing each Jedi and their strengths, so that we can figure out what they're good at and what roles they would be best at filling. We could go from there to tailoring plots to writers, and creating a more efficient enviornment for the Order as a whole.
I may not be much as a Jedi, but I'm alright with a saber.
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Devlin Dewe
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Post by Devlin Dewe on Apr 28, 2013 18:17:33 GMT -8
Whoa, whoa whoa. Let's not get carried away. "A more expedient Council"? Easy, now. I don't think there's any need to do anything hasty or rash, here. Let's just take a moment and breathe. I think we're making some strides, but I think this is a time for meditation and reflection. But, as for Alkor's description of the "strike team" as first responders and giving the Watchmen a little more autonomy...that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think we could easily find that doable. I mean, for the most part, I see the Watchmen's role as fairly free to do as they see fit--while still keeping to the Code--while informing the Council of the goings-on in their sector, where Jedi are needed, etc. Of course, then one must ask, "Who watches the Watchmen?" (sorry, couldn't resist.) Okay, I may need reminding who's on the Watchmen team, but I don't think the Council would have approved of any postings if we didn't think the Jedi assigned weren't capable of working out a solution the best they could while following the principles of the Order. Afterall, many times lone Jedi are the only glimpse outsiders have of the Order. I don't think any Jedi are let "off the leash" until they are ready to handle most situations that pop-up and keep the Order's good name intact (in canon, at least; on JvS, it's debatable  ) So, any ideas on how we go about finding which roles we are best suited for? Trial by fire? I mean, I'm suited for anything and everything that can be thrown at me. I mean, I am a big, damn hero, so... but what about the rest of the Order? They could use some sharpening up. Especially, that blonde haired kid, um, I think his name's Adi...must Tango...or something, I can't quite remember. Wait, scratch that, I'm only really good at being a hermit. Time to channel my inner  . |
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Will Sontir
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Post by Will Sontir on Apr 28, 2013 18:34:12 GMT -8
still just talking. and it's a discussion worth having.
Topics i have seen:
Council structure
The identity of the Watchmen (expectations)
Recruiting Investigators
Efficiently keeping track of and assigning Jedi
Collaborating with Baddies.
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Devlin Dewe
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Post by Devlin Dewe on Apr 28, 2013 18:36:31 GMT -8
As far as role call for the Council:
Masters
Dav Man'sell
Aerandir Calmcacil
Raven Alora
Serrin Roma
Jago Pulastra
Devlin Dewe
Vesten Kor-taan (MIA)
Knight Advisor
Adieumus Matango
Talon Frost
As far as the rest of the Order:
Alkor Centaris
Mike Frantz
Will Son'tir
...um, I am following around 20 or so Jedi writers, does that count?
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Aerandir Calmcacil
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Post by Aerandir Calmcacil on Apr 28, 2013 18:38:08 GMT -8
Don't forget Talon Frost as Knight Advisor, unless you know something we don't regarding his potential return.
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we need them to allow us to be reciprocal with the hits and be hit. We were heading in the right direction there at the end, but were not allowed to let it come to fruition. . .again.
)
.