Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Nov 19, 2020 1:48:22 GMT -8
- Cabur-Class Stealth Bomber -
Ship Class: Heavy Starfighter
Ship Role: Stealth Bomber
Ship Length: 25 meters
Agility (A): 4 points
Defensive (D): 1 points
Offensive (O): 4 points
Speed (S): 2 points
Special Gear: 4 points (Cloak, Stealth, Gravitic Tech)
Description:
Standard Equipment:
Mk4 Fire Control System
Anti-ion Emission Tracer
Inertial Compensators
Main Sublight Drive
Anti-Concussion Field Generators
Repulsorlift Arrays
Grav couch and ejection system
Advanced Equipment:
Stygium Cloaking Device
Gravitic amplitude modulator
Low power communications suite
High power passive sensor suite
Armaments :
2 x Incinerator-class plasma railguns
2 x Ion Cannons
2 x MG7-compatible launchers
4 x Heavy Weapon Launchers
The original mandalorian stealth bomber Kaine once flew was named Werlaara; meaning Myth in Mando'a, was a fine craft, one the Cabur-class takes its cue from. An ambitious project secretly developed by MandalArms, the XBS-3 was named the Cabur by Kaine himself. Only one squadron of these advanced vessels has been produced.
The Cabur like her predecessor designs is composed of smooth lines and is coated with a matte black coating that is made of vacuum and reentry hardened Ferrocarbon. The craft carries a pair of railguns and a pair of ion cannons, and has Agrinium shielding to improve radiation shielding. She also carries the latest in MandalArms' power, sensor and communications technologies. She is equipped with a stygium cloaking device. To further enhance her stealth, an advanced Gravitic Amplitude Modulator is employed in an attempt to remove the gravitic signature of the bomber from CGT or Dovin Basal based detection systems. In addition the cockpit is equipped for either a single pilot, or pilot and navigator/gunner.
For armaments, which are all focused forward, small standard sized proton torpedo (MG7s) launchers are situated forward flanking the cockpit, with the plasma railguns slung under the chin, back underneath the cockpit and a considerable length of the ship.
Below the cockpit the main ordnance racks and launchers take up the bulk of the rest of the craft. By having a number of racks to choose from, the pilot has the choice of a large variety of weapons that can be loaded onto his ship to get the job done; that ultimate goal usually being the destruction or severely damaging a target, though incapacitating a target at times is just as effective in certain situations.
The munitions carried can vary from T-33 shield buster missiles and ion missiles, rockets and bombs, to more deadly Heavy Proton rockets, Heavy Proton Bombs, even Atomic Compression bombs and other nuclear weapons, to impact weapons such as Seismic Charges and mines. Cabur is designed for versatility in her strike packages, and is equally able to deliver them.
Because of her heavy armaments and extra thrusters, the vessel lacks shields, and even heavy armour plating, making it somewhat vulnerable to enemy fire, especially compared to more sturdy bomber designs. It is also not designed to compete against starfighters; though it can dogfight in a pinch, it cannot escape utilizing speed.
Surprisingly for such a slow and heavy craft, the Werlaara's all aspect thruster array allows for significant agility, allowing her to slip quietly between enemy patrols and pickets to get inside a fleet's defences and strike at the fat targets in the centre, as well as tangle with enemy fighters, some of which it can out maneuver.
Named 'Guardian' in Mando'a, this particular protector is most certainly a pre-emptive weapon best used on the offense when striking without warning. She packs a heavy punch into a compact package and gives the Mandalorians that fly her a competitive vessel in the stealth craft arena. |
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Nov 19, 2020 2:01:38 GMT -8
could you adjust the image width down to like 60%-70% please. Also, I'm going to have to say that the "In-built nutrient frame and housing for Ysalamir" is not standard equipment and would be counted as special gear. Nicademus Delvardus IV Standash Thul what do you guys think? |
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Standash Thul
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Post by Standash Thul on Nov 19, 2020 5:56:09 GMT -8
That depends oh how you are proposing that the Ysalamir interact with the function. My readings and understanding of them wouldn't really have much effect in space combat outside of very rare and specific situations. Are you just saying that the ship can move them?
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Nov 19, 2020 7:00:09 GMT -8
Our understanding of Ysalamir is that it ensured users could not exert any influence over the Force. In a ways, I believe this is meant to negate force users from utilizing force powers in combat and likely for the pilot to use the creature in situations on the ground too. However, this bubble only measures up to a 10 meter diameter. Groupings of them could extend this bubble into kilometers.
Let's consider this with a sense of mathematics: if 1 Ysalamir = 10 meters, then likely 100 of these creatures = 1 kilometer. That's a lot of Ysalamir to gather in order to make that impact. And that goes for every single person who wants to use these bombers.
My fear is that people will grab these up without considering the rule that you NEED to go to their homeworld and actually gather them. Plus, this could likely be manufactured in more quantity, resulting a rather hard advantage that I don't think is acceptable for any player. In my views, Ysalamir are best for personal usage and fair game that way. Having say... a squadrons worth of these, or more, could result in far too unfair of an advantage. Given the restrictions and rulings of the creature, I do not think I can accept this submission.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Nov 19, 2020 19:43:22 GMT -8
Just to be clear, there are no Ysalamiri in the bomber. Anyone using one has to acquire Ysalamiri to put in said bomber, and it's not going to hold more than two, just enough to cover the craft itself. The purpose is to prevent Force users sensing either the craft or the pilot. The rules about Ysalamiri already protect against abuse. I have added a note at the bottom of the sub to clarify this. Nicademus Delvardus IV |
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Nov 20, 2020 1:12:50 GMT -8
I believe that's going to be a no on the Nutrient Frame being kit for the bomber. I'd recommend dropping it.
also, as mentioned before, pleas adjust the image to the following:
style="max-width:70%;"
Just to make it a bit smaller.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Nov 20, 2020 1:56:47 GMT -8
Zion Morviael [RETIRED] No worries, its not essential to the design. I would expect there to be more than one of these given it's designed as a combat craft. Probably a squadron or two at most.
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Nov 20, 2020 6:20:22 GMT -8
yeah, plus with the stealth tech you got on there, you'd need a Force User being lucky enough to focus exactly where these are.
APPROVED.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Nov 20, 2020 7:02:12 GMT -8
Btw, it's just two points for the Stealth Cloak, unless you are doing stealth fittings AND cloak.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Nov 20, 2020 7:11:55 GMT -8
Nicademus Delvardus IVYes, there are additional stealth systems to go along with the cloak; the reflec coat, the gravitic modulator, and the tibanna-x drive.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Dec 3, 2020 14:30:23 GMT -8
I, personally, feel that I cannot fully endorse this yet. While the Ysalamiri habitation, on the vessel, was one thing, this starfighter has too much stealth on it
1. You have TibannaX to make emissions cool in order for it to be hard to track
2. You have a stealth painting, if I read correctly
3. You have full stealth cloaking
4. You have gravitic amplitude modulator in order to counter CGT or Dovin Basal based detection systems
The thought that comes to mind is "where is the Achilles Heel to all this stealth?" It can't be seen, it can't be tracked, it can't be detected. If this was a personal ship, I may be slightly alright with this. But it seems that you have plans for this to be full production bomber for your fleet.
I feel this needs to be taken down A LOT with its stealth tech if I am correct on the full production. I would be alright with the stealth cloaking or perhaps pairing the stealth painting with the TibannaX or the gravitic modulator. I do think that all this stealth, on one craft, would present a very unfair advantage and a rather unbalanced issue. Especially if there are gonna be squadrons of these bombers.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Dec 3, 2020 22:17:45 GMT -8
Nicademus Delvardus IV This one is to be limited to a single prototype squadron. I would think they would be murderously expensive to produce. As for drawbacks, the stealth is heavy, but it's held back by the craft being extremely slow and extremely vulnerable to damage.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Dec 4, 2020 7:13:27 GMT -8
Thoughts on my concerns and what Kaine has said, Databank Operators? Is having it be one special prototype squadron acceptable or should this entry be further toned down, on the stealth tech, before being approved? Zion Morviael [RETIRED]Standash ThulViox Savage |
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Dec 4, 2020 7:37:21 GMT -8
Admittedly, given some review of the exact systems in use, I don't necessarily believe the defence that "it's slow and fragile" is exactly a solid argument. Especially since It can't be seen, it can't be tracked, and it can't be detected. Force User's can't just track 12 signatures in the massive void of space around a planet (anyone that claims they could is straight up Power Gaming or God Modding. Words that I have not had to use in years), And even if they could, your one and only real weakness would be Force Users, of which not all people that have a fleet are Force Users.
There are examples of cloaks and tibana-x being used together (Maul's ship as I recall), but I struggle to recall any examples that also had gravitic amplitude modulators as well as Reflec-coated Durinium-weave hull armour.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Dec 4, 2020 7:53:48 GMT -8
Zion Morviael [RETIRED] I respectfully disagree. It's difficult to detect any stealth craft without first knowing it's there, something most stealth pilots actively avoid. These are more stealthy than your average bear, but if anyone knows they are there, they can be located, and taken down. I can think of several ways to illuminate these craft should an enemy expect them or be looking for them. Here's a couple that could work, or ideas in that direction; Stardust Plan, Anti-laser Aerosol. They're certainly detectable in atmosphere, youd need special kit to detect them in space.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Dec 4, 2020 8:12:42 GMT -8
Except, Kaine, that does require a bit of knowledge of good countermeasures. At a first glance, there would be people who would be rather hesitant to remotely face off against your bombers cause they are... well, the best way to say is fool proof with the stealth. As we have said: these cannot be tracked, these cannot be detected, and these cannot be seen. I can see where the faults are, but the former, Stardust Plan, was a proposed and semi-successful method. Anti-laser aerosol sounds like it would require a bit of time to deploy AFTER getting any remote hints that something stealthy is about.
Durinium seems to be used on a smaller scale too. I cannot find an instance of these being used on hulls. Nothing bigger than a cargo module has been noted to have used it.
In just my views, this seems too unbalanced with the stealth tech on it. Only a Force user would be able to sense the persons in them, but the Force can't give an exact pinpoint either.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Dec 4, 2020 8:21:16 GMT -8
Any stealth craft is going to require special vigilance and special countermeasures to defeat. I can see how these appear to be overpowered and am happy to work with you on the sub more. I can't envision a situation where a regular stealth craft, fighter or capital ship, would have less success in attacking undetected than these. Both will be detected once they attack, even if these happen to be more stealthy than usual.
What could we do to make this submission more agreeable? I am happy to have just a single craft if large numbers of these are the issue.
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Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Dec 4, 2020 8:23:00 GMT -8
1. You have TibannaX to make emissions cool in order for it to be hard to track
2. You have a stealth painting, if I read correctly
3. You have full stealth cloaking
4. You have gravitic amplitude modulator in order to counter CGT or Dovin Basal based detection systems
Between the four listed points, I would be fine with the stealth cloaking. Maybe don't need the painting as a result. However, I would choose between the TibannaX or the GAM.
Those are my suggestions, but I am open to compromise and the opinions of my other Operators.
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Kaine Australis
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Post by Kaine Australis on Dec 4, 2020 8:32:27 GMT -8
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Dec 4, 2020 14:00:05 GMT -8
Having the Cloak and GAM is an agreeable compromise. I mean in the grand scheme of things, stealth craft are extremely difficult to detect when a cloaking device is involved, since at that point you’re having to detect either their engine emissions that escape that cloak bubble or gravatic anomalies.
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