Darth Flvin
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Post by Darth Flvin on Dec 18, 2015 11:05:37 GMT -8
THE TIME HAS FINALLY COME!
The movie is finally here, and I must say I absolutely loved it. There were a few things here and there that may have disappointed a few people, but overall I think the movie was outstanding. I've created this thread in order to create discussion and possible theories for the next movies to come.
THIS IS A FINAL WARNING TO ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN THE MOVIE YET, SPOILERS AHEAD!
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Darth Flvin
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Post by Darth Flvin on Dec 18, 2015 11:55:57 GMT -8
I hate to double post but I'll start the discussion with some questions for everyone.
- What was your reaction to the reveal of Kylo Ren's real identity? Any similarities from the characters from the EU? - Supreme Leader Snoke...possibly Darth Plagueis reincarnated? - Who are Rey's parents? Luke, Han and Leia, perhaps a creation through the force? - What of the other characters from the OT? Wheres Lando? Wheres Wedge?
I'll reply to anyone's response with my thoughts, I just want to get some discussion going.
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Gavin Roken
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Post by Gavin Roken on Dec 21, 2015 12:45:32 GMT -8
As was mentioned before - SPOILERS AHEAD!
1. I thought they handled the Kylo Ren reveal about as well as they could have done without it feeling cheesy or overdone or whatever. So far, Kylo Ren appears to have been taken from the template of Jacen Solo, so it will be interesting to how they move forward. I am hoping that they can have a decent balance between new material and nods to the EU.
2. My thought has always been that Snoke would be Plagueis reincarnated or somehow he managed to survive Palpatine's attack. He is referred to as wise, he is tall and thin, he is scarred. It would make sense, especially if they are establishing Luke and Rey as super powerful characters. Which seems to be the case. I could also see them going with some sort of Plagueis' secret apprentice that Sidious never knew about. Third possibility is him having some connection to the inquisitors from the Rebels tv series. Those make the most sense to me, but as long as they integrate the character well, I'm not sure it matters who he actually is.
3. Based on 2 things, I think we can rule out Han and Leia (with a small caveat): Rey and Kylo (through dipping into her memories) appear to know who abandoned her. The caveat being that they could have had somebody else drop her off on Jakku. My personal theory: She is either Luke's daughter that Luke doesn't actually know about or she is a creation through the force by Snoke (if Snoke is indeed Plagueis) or by Luke, in which case Luke wouldn't have actually realized he succeeded and thus it isn't Luke who abandoned her. If I remember correctly, Maz Kanata says that the person she is waiting for will never come back, but somebody else might (in reference to Luke). That'd be a weird thing to say if Luke were indeed the one she was waiting for.
4. They could have easily used Wedge, Crix Madine, or Lando along with the Ackbar cameo. Mon Mothma and Reiken would be pretty old, but they could have made an appearance as well. Dodonna is really the only one who seems like he would be too old to make a reappearance. Yet we only saw a brief return of Ackbar and Nien Nunb. It was cool to see Ackbar, but I'd rather have seen Wedge and Lando. Other than that, it could have been interesting to see some of the others as brief cameos.
Other notes: I thought it was awesome, though I still place the original trilogy movies as better (That's not a knock on the new movie, I just absolutely love me the originals). I also like how they didn't just ram a bunch of reveals down our throats. There are still some reveals that we can await in the next movie (and hopefully movie 3 as well).
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Stevan Stormro
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Post by Stevan Stormro on Dec 21, 2015 14:31:44 GMT -8
There are a bunch of little nit-picky things I could go into, such as the fact that TIEs aren't two-pilot fighters and are incapable of landing on their wings and such, but to me the film's three biggest failings were that the pacing was waaaaaaaay too fast, the plot was more or less a rehashing of Episode IV with some other shameless nods to other films from the original trilogy thrown in, and the balancing of comedy versus drama wasn't done well, especially in the case of Finn who felt like a butt-monkey almost as much if not more than he felt like a main hero. If there were a checklist of everything that should have made a great Star Wars movie TFA would have hit most of the checks, but it just lacks the soul/heart that I was looking for in a new Star Wars film and didn't give me the warm fuzzies I get every time I watch ANY of the other six films, even the prequilogy.
The cinematography was well done, the action scenes awesome, but those alone don't make a great star wars film. I'm especially insulted that they wiped the entire canon just to give us a rehashing of what we've already seen from the franchise; if you're going to wipe the canon then I at least expect that you are going to be treading new ground. I would rather they try to go in a new direction and fail than just make a lazy, safe rehashing of what they've already given us that takes no risks.
With that main bit expressed, time for a little more nit-picking and commenting...xD
1. Kylo Ren - What a terrible main villain! He never felt scary or intimidating for me, especially after he started throwing violent tantrums like a petulant man-child every time some little thing didn't go his way. His build was faaaar too wiry to make that big, heavy seeming helmet work, and even the helmet itself and his blatant Vader fanboyism was annoying. I actually liked him slightly better once he stopped wearing the bloody thing because then at least he was standing on his own as a Sith rather than as a wannabe Vader. Also, is power level and usage was extremely inconsistent. We see him being able to freeze blaster shots mid-air (What the fuck?) as well as hold people frozen with the Force. He does this to Rey herself mid-movie, and to the pilot guy (Whose name didn't stick with me all that well) at the beginning. Yet despite that, he doesn't do that against Finn or Rey during the (supposed >.>) climax of the film, and then proceeds to actually struggle against an non-sensitive, untrained Stormtrooper (Who himself had lost in a fight more readily against another stormtropper earlier) before losing outright to an untrained sensitive. By the end of the movie I was finding it hard to believe that this was the person who single-handedly destroyed the budding New Jedi Order. It makes no sense that he wouldn't use such power against at least Finn except as a lazy plot device that the writer had to resort to once they realized that they had made Kylo Ren too strong for their heroes to realistically defeat. Also, Ben? Seriously? That's Luke's son, not Han's. If you're going to use Jacen Solo's character name the bloody character Jacen Solo!! Again, to take that much from canon after making such a big deal of decanonizing the canon is just aggravating. Halfway through the movie Stormro was in my head asking if he could put the petulant whelp in his place yet...>.>
2. BB-8 - Bloody hell, I wanted to punt that stupid, illogical little sack of bolts. The design makes no sense in terms of both canon precedent AND practicality (As shown when BB-8 was bouncing around the Falcon like a pinball). It was painfully obvious that BB-8 was designed to be a cute, marketable R2-D2 replacement for the movie. Even BB-8's vocalizations annoyed me, sounding more like rapid-fire, random noise than the more deliberate beeping of R2.
3. The First Order - I actually really liked The First Order for the most part. General Hux chewed the ham a bit during his big speech (Is it bad that my first thought was of Jeremy Irons in Dungeons and Dragons? xD) but it was actually kind of amusing rather than annoying in comparison to a lot of other things. I particularly liked the fact that all of the officers and leadership seem to be young, reflecting the fact that most of the Imperial senior command chain was destroyed/killed either on the first Death Star or during the battle to destroy the second Death Star. Captain Phasma was kind of a bad-ass (Hopefully we'll get to see more of her in Episode VIII), and now that I think about it she actually had a little bit of a Boba Fett-ish kind of feel, what with her whole general silent, helmeted badassness. With that all said, however, I can do without Kylo Ren entirely, plus I demand to know where the hell the rest of the Knights of Ren were? This Death Star 3.0 base of theirs seems to have been their main plan, so one would have thought that if they had an internal order of Force Sensitives or something like that they would have had more than just Kylo present on the base. Where were they? Snokes himself even said that he put Kylo Ren in charge of the Knights of Ren, making it clear that they existed before Kylo Ren became their leader. I'm sure that we'll see more of them down the road in the later movies (Possibly to parallel a growing number of Jedi perhaps?) but I just find their complete lack of presence to be more of a plot hole than I care to let by unscathed.
4. Han Solo - The fact that he was going to die was so obvious that I hesitate to call it something that can be spoiled. Even if you ignore the fact that Harrison Ford is too old to be able to make two more of these films as Han Solo (Hell, he injured himself and had to be air lifted out once during this shoot), the moment they set the scene with the walkway I knew that there was no way he was going to be coming out of this alive. Hell, even as far back as when Leia asked him to bring their son home I was thinking "Yeah, no; your son is going to kill him." Halfway through his conversation with Kylo Ren I was sitting there thinking "Just get it over with and stab your Father already! Bloody hell, we all know you're going to do it. Stop trying to fake us out with your badly written attempts to make us think that he is going to heel-face turn in this movie." In addition, the repeating joke with Han really liking Chewie's Bowcaster was beyond annoying. You mean to tell me that over thirty-plus years of working together that Han has NEVER once fired that weapon? Hell, even if he somehow hadn't they kept delivering that joke over and over to the point that I felt like shouting "It's never going to be funny! Give it up!" Also, the effects work when his body fell into the pit was absolutely TERRIBLE...>.<
I'm sure that there are more things that I could rant and/or nit-pick about, but for now this is all that I can think of so I'll go ahead and throw them out there. Feel free to discuss/comment/disagree; I'm still trying to figure out how soooo many people have been acting like this was an amazing and fulfilling Star Wars movie. xD
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Post by John Darklight on Dec 29, 2015 13:53:48 GMT -8
I just had a page wrote but i accidentally exited the tab to this page so long story short:
SPOILERS
I've been out of the theater long enough to only pull myself together and think about what i just watched. For those who haven't seen the movie yet i think i can speak for the majority of Star wars fans when i say...Starwars is BACK!! I brought my father to see it and he has been a fan since he first watched it back in 77'....honestly the first time I've seen him get teary eyed over a movie.
Because after all Star wars is more then just a movie. One thing i brought up that's worth writing all over again is the Snoke/Plagueis theory. After watching this film i believe Snoke is Plagueis. I mean come on...Palpatines story of his master just doesn't add up. Even before there was ever talk about a sequel to the originals i thought either...the story of Darth Plagueis the wise was either bad writing...or Palpatine was lying about his death.
Didn't Palpatine refer his master as Darth Plagueis the wise? It may be just a coincidence but Kylo Ren referred his master as a wise leader. Or something along the lines of that. Let's just say he is Plagueis for a moment. That would mean there is a bigger story then any of us ever realized which was set into motion years before The Phantom Menace. What i find interesting is Snoke's reaction when he finds out Starkiller base would crumble, his reaction tells me his end game is much larger and more sinister then what any super weapon could ever do. And i don't mean physically larger because after all Vader did say ''the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force''.
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Kaan
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Post by Kaan on Dec 29, 2015 15:31:54 GMT -8
Okay....
SPOILERS
Now, I would like to point out that overall, I liked the movie. It wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination, and the people who have ranked it above A New Hope and Return of the Jedi are smoking some wacky tabacky. It's not THAT good. It's passable, certainly, and better than the prequels. Granted, that's about as hard as sitting down...but I digress. I had a few issues with the movie...maybe some of them will be addressed, maybe not. We'll see when VIII comes out, which yes, I am going to see. That said, I'll try not to be overly critical or harsh, and I will point out things that I did like about the movie. Okay, on we go.
Bugbear #1 - The First Order/Rebellion: I did like the concept of the First Order. I would have liked, however, to have been given some more background on them and their origin. Where did they come from? Why isn't the New Republic fighting them if they're so obviously evil? It's been 30 years...I'm pretty sure you have consolidated your power by this point and have some sort of army/fleet. So why is there a small Rebellion of X-Wing pilots and Princess...um, I'm sorry...GENERAL Leia fighting them and you're not? What precisely is the relationship of the Rebellion to the Republic? Rebellion implies subjugation by a foreign power, yet the members of this new Rebellion are citizens of the Republic, which is NOT under occupation by the First Order. So why a Rebellion? It seems like Abrams didn't want to be bothered with fleshing out a story and just wanted to jump to the action. Speaking of story, that leads to...
Bugbear #2 - The Force Awakens a New Hope of the Return of the Jedi Striking Back at the Cloned Sith Phantom Wars: So one of my biggest problems with this movie is they went too far with the nostalgia and tributes. A lot of it felt shoehorned in...only there for the purpose of going "Looky looky! This was in der other moviees!!!". Like the dejarik board randomly turning on when Fin hits it. Or him just pulling out the training remote onto the screen for a brief second while looking for bandages for Chewbacca. Or Fin shooting down his first TIE fighter in the seat of the Falcon. Or any number of other images shoved in there for no other reason than to try and pull at the heartstrings. It was TOO MUCH. The movie played it way too safe and relied on an almost event for event retelling of A New Hope rather than having a new story to stand on its own. Even at the end with the X-Wings flying down a trench to destroy the Mine-Is-Bigger-Than-Yours,-George Star. Which, I'm sorry. That was ridiculous. By this point, when I see an over-sized planet killer, I know its going to be blown up by the end of the movie. That's what Star Wars has taught me. So all the suspense goes right out the window. This, I imagine, was also the reason for a "Rebellion" that was completely unneeded. Or that the new Jedi (Rey) was an expert pilot with no family on a desert planet. Just too damn much. Speaking of characters...
Bugbear #3 - The characters...oh God...the characters: So, this is going to be a longer one, and I apologize in advance. Going to have to subhead this one. First up:
- Fin: His character makes no damn sense whatsoever. This is a person who, by his own admission, was taken by the First Order at a young age, indoctrinated and brainwashed by this cult, showed no signs at all EVER of doubting himself, the Order, his missions, etc., showed no signs of being anything other than a perfect cultist (as told by Silver Stormie), and then all of a sudden in his VERY FIRST battle, he sees one of his squadmates die and decides "Fuck it. I'm done. Time to defect.". Really?! Well, I'm certainly glad you thought that one through, dude. It's a major life decision and not something to be done lightly. *sigh* I know Abrams is not a story-oriented person. That he misses a lot of little details because he plays more toward the action side of movies. I get that. But this was REALLY bad. This is supposed to be one of your main protagonists, and you fuck up his story from the very start. Anyway, next character...
- Rey: Uuuuuuuuum....not really any huge problems with her. She is actually kind of badass, despite being a Luke clone. I'm fine with having a kick-ass female lead who does not need rescuing. Her being an untrained adept and beating a (supposedly) well-trained Sith warrior, the head of his Knightly Order...okay. LITTLE on the unbelievable side, but whatevs. It was awesome to watch that emo Vader fanboy get his ass handed to him. Her getting Anakin's/Luke's old lightsaber was something they need to touch on. Simply telling us that it's a "very good question but not right now" is not good enough, considering when last we saw it, it was taking a tumble into Bespin's atmosphere. A gas giant. So...yeah, really interested as to how it ended up where it did.
- Han Solo: *sigh* Okay, this one hit a little close to home since Han was my favorite character growing up...I'm not glad that he's dead, but I'm glad that Harrison Ford got his wish. He always said it made no sense to him that Han had survived Return of the Jedi. Just...if you're going to kill him, give him a bit more dignity that THAT. Seriously. Chewbacca going all berserker rage was awesome, though for a moment I thought he had blown himself up.
- Kylo Ren: Hoo boy...where to start with him. He's a laughable villain. That's a good start. I almost took him seriously. Then he started having temper tantrums and being an emo Vader fan boy. I didn't get the purpose of his helmet. I mean, obviously it was a Vader tribute, but if it wasn't to help him breathe and was more ceremonial and of personal importance in nature then why didn't he only remove it in private? If it was just the helmet of his particular knightly order, then why wear it out of combat? Also, as referenced with Rey, I'm not sure how he got his ass beat by her, especially taking into account his apparent power with the Force and her being completely untrained. I want to see more of the Knights of Ren. I'm curious as to the role they're going to play.
- BB-8: Kill it. Fucking kill it now. Despite it being of a completely irrational and unworkable design, it was completely unneeded. One little piece of a galaxy map is gone, and you couldn't extrapolate where Luke was based on EVERYTHING ELSE YOU HAVE ON YOUR 95% COMPLETED MAP? *sigh* Its only reason for existing was to look cute, sell merchandise, and further add to the movie being a New Hope reboot by having the Empire chase a droid with important information contained within it.
- The Old Cast: The reunion between Leia and Han was well done. Sweet, tasteful, and believable. Then I nearly pissed myself laughing when C-3PO butted onscreen to greet Han. It reminded me of their relationship in the old movies, and in a GOOD way without being forced down my throat. It alluded to it instead of copying it.
That's about all I can think of at this rate. I might come up with more, but this was pretty much it for the big problems. There were other minor small things, but not of any consequence.
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Post by Bedrovelse Hevn on Jan 2, 2016 6:16:49 GMT -8
Okay so one thing I want to express to others who have seen the movie is this little detail I picked out that nobody else I have said it to has thought of yet!
Kylo Ren SUCCESSFULLY interrogates Rey. When he is rifling through her thoughts what does he find? An ocean....and an island....exactly where Luke Skywalker is. They cling to the tiny detail of needing a map and completely fly over that fact. Although it would actually be insightful of them to use that in the next movie to draw Rey and Kylo into facing each other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 6:59:01 GMT -8
can we also all take a moment to appreciate this little detail about the Kylo vs Rey and Finn fight: imgur.com/gallery/7EhqwbFwith regards to BB-8, dude's way more practically designed than say... C-3PO who would have tripped his arse down that stair case that BB-8 rolled seamlessly down, and you think BB-8 had trouble in the falcon? oh man, 3PO would have done way worse, least BB-8 had the grapple hooks to stop himself. and R2-D2? yeah, not sure he'd have taken those stairs all too well either without jump jetting down them. Also, point of note, it is a completely workable design, they even used practical models of it on set, oh and comic con 2015, so...
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Stevan Stormro
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Post by Stevan Stormro on Jan 2, 2016 7:57:53 GMT -8
C-3P0 could have sat in a seat and buckled in. I will grant that R2 would have struggled more with the stairs, but for what both droids are clearly designed to do stairs aren't an issue. When doing repairs on ships in either a hanger or in/on the ship itself in space a droid is not likely going to be encountering many sets of stairs I'd imagine. Besides, a hovering droid would have performed just as well and would have made more sense from the standpoint of design precedent in the canon. The biggest failing of BB-8's design is displayed in the Falcon scene. Yes, he was able to grapple himself into place with the cords, but if that is how he deals with such a situation then how is he meant to perform repairs to a ship while its in motion or in combat? In Episode I we see R2 performing fairly major repairs on the exterior of the Padme's J-Type 327 Nubian Royal Starship while it is in motion AND in combat. From what we've seen of BB-8 thus far, that would not be possible for him to do in spite of his obvious intended purpose as an astromech droid.
I never claimed that it wasn't a workable design, just that it made no sense within the canon. The analogy I have used with others regarding this point is that to me BB-8 is like if you saw a car that someone had replaced the wheels with legs and made no other changes besides those needed to make legs work. Does it work? Yes. Does it make any sense within the established methods of design? No. That is my issue with it; it makes no sense to me that some manufacturer would have produced an entire line of droids that is soooo far outside of the design precedent that is set within the canon.
As for the Kylo Ren fight I'm getting sick and bloody tired of people acting like that argument makes Kylo Ren a badass. That shot was hardly a gut shot (More of a side shot, and at an angle that at most it might have hit a kidney.), and I don't see any reason why it implies that he is a great and powerful Force user. Did the Force help him to keep fighting in spite of the injury? Certainly. Adrenaline and discipline will also accomplish that to a degree though, and that combined with the many of inconsistent displays of power in the movie make me unwilling to just accept that as proof of Kylo Ren's supposed massive power. Now, I'm not saying that his injury wouldn't have slowed him down. It certainly would have, and I actually REALLY liked how he kept hitting it to create spikes of pain and sensation that he could draw on to keep fighting, but the injury isn't as bad as that imgr post seems to be trying to make it out to be. The blaster that Poe fired at him at the beginning of the movie looked almost like some sort of sniper rifle, and the explosion when Kylo Ren released the bolt seemed fairly close to that of the bowcaster so I'm not really willing to act like the bowcaster's supposed level of power explains how it got past him. It still just reads to me like they needed Kylo Ren to suddenly be less powerful.
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Viox Savage
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Post by Viox Savage on Jan 2, 2016 19:58:26 GMT -8
As a point on the Kylo Ren fight, I feel the need to bring attention to the fact that, yes he is a skilled warrior. Yes he is trained Force user. But his biggest flaw was the fact that he lost his head. He frequently liked to throw tantrums like a little bitch, which certainly makes it believable that he is Anakin's grandson...but that's not the point. Kylo Ren is the embodiment of instability, at least in my opinion. And as such comes the ability to seriously screw the pooch even if you happen to wield the bigger stick. He wasn't in the right mind set to be fighting Rey and Finn together. One or the other maybe, but not both. And let's not shy away from the fact that, while Finn did hold his own fairly well for the most part, he still got his ass kicked in the end. Kylo was injured and drained both physically and mentally by the time he fought Rey. Rey knew how to handle herself in a fight. I don't think she should have escaped without injury, but Ren was also not trying to kill her. He wanted her so he could bring her to Snoke. I don't even like Ren as a bad guy because I think he is being the emo-child wannabe that Anakin was in Episode II and III. And while Anakin managed to make his whole whiny, emo thing work for him, clearly Ren cannot. Point is, the scales were tipped against him from the start, and his still managed to hold his own quite well.
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Post by Bedrovelse Hevn on Jan 3, 2016 4:47:49 GMT -8
I have been playing devil's advocate for Kylo against a lot of my friends. Viox helped me put something in place to help me describe it better.
He isn't supposed to be refined. That element is left to be desired as part of his transformation in the next movies and Snoke's more refined training and attention to him now that he has proved his loyalty by slaying Han. Kylo doesn't even want to be in his own shoes. One thing I considered when he stabbed Han Solo was if he did it because the SUN DISAPPEARED. Meaning the starkiller base was ready to fire and finish the Resistance. As for Kylo, he has to understand that the dark side is greater considering the legacy of Sidious and Vader, and how he as an apprentice pissed all over Luke's cheerios.
What Viox has pointed out is that his weakness is his head. He loses confidence in a snap because he isn't used to being challenged whatsoever! Only General Hux can talk any shit to him. As we noticed all he has use for his saber before was throwing angry fits when things don't go according to plan, because against he isn't used to it. All of it damages his resolve.
As for the final fight I wanted to describe some intricacies I interpreted, but are a stretch of the imagination and by the stars I swear I am not defending Abrams or even believing he put enough thought into it.
Kylo is shot, advantage is his pain and anger. He has already beat Finn before so it was imperative to disable Rey and dispose of him. Something Kylo accomplishes slowly, partly because I noticed he has a very weird Greatsword style of swinging considering how light a lightsaber is. When Rey grabs the lightsaber instead of him, imagine him instantly dropping to about half his power. He's stunned not only that she is awake, but that her concentration overcame his own for the second time. She already beat him mentally in the interrogation room. Huge blow to the ego and his confidence. He pounds on his wound and chases her about until he foolishly reminds her of the power they share. They give her a close up, of finding clarity and concentration, something we all agree Kylo lacks, and the force carries her forward to defeat him. Sure she can handle herself, but much like Luke's victory in the originals I chalk it up to his straightforward thinking and pure heart sort of deal. Rey's only goal is to win, and Kylo's order is to subdue her and like Viox said, bring her to Snoke.
That being said, I was disappointed in the fight because it lacked the choreography we saw in the prequels. Although that being said they are both going to be poor swordsman given their lack of practice and more or less swing wildly. I expected a better show of form from Ren in some aspect, but I felt like he kept using the same fucking 3 move combo Siegfried does in Soul Calibur. One-two-spin overhand. All I can assume is that he was too tired to exhaust his opponents swinging like that because they were scared for their lives with the fate of the galaxy on the line....or whatever heroic excuse you want to provide haha.
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Viox Savage
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Post by Viox Savage on Jan 3, 2016 9:53:37 GMT -8
See, now that's the type of criticism I like to see. When people take a step back from their original train of thought and collect more information. Well said. And after a quick read and reflection on how the film played out, it isn't a huge stretch of the imagination to think along those lines. I mean, in the end, we are all going to dissect this film and take what we want to take from it. That's just how it always seems to work. As for how good the film is and all that jazz, it's entirely a matter of opinion, and there isn't anything that can be done about it now. Take what you can from it, and hope for better on the next go around. Again, well said and thanks for the honorable mentions. It's nice to know I played a part in helping clear some issues up.
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Post by John Darklight on Jan 4, 2016 21:32:54 GMT -8
While i do agree that Kylo may of had one to many tantrums, i felt more threatened by him then i did with Anakin. The difference between Anakin and Kylo is, Anakin was driven by mostly hate while Kylo is driven by fear. Anakin had nothing to prove because he was arrogant and overconfident from the beginning. With Kylo, we're starting with someone who wants to prove himself to his master. He is willing to do anything, but when he screws up he gets consumed by fear and shits himself. There is something real important we need to realize, Kylo feels the pull to the light yet proceeds to follow the path to the dark side and he is doing this because he fears Snoke. Every chance Kylo or Hux gets to prove themselves to Snoke, it seems like they are scrambling for scraps at his feet while snarling at each other.
In Imax 3D, that scene when Snoke sat up and said ''GENERAL!'', i won't lie, that was startling...i don't blame Kylo Ren.
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Post by Ghôsh Windu on Jan 10, 2016 18:32:59 GMT -8
as movie it a great watch, but i felt like i watch star wars as interpreted by a star trek fan, ....my biggest issue besides the wack lightsaber battles was Luke,like my dude what are you doing, return of the jedi? there are still no jedi and you're standing on an island watching the sunset while getting old, Yoda felt it in the force the wackness of Luke Skywalker and just said f it i am be one with the force now , ...i am pretty sure Rey and Kylo Ren are gonna turn out to be brother and sister because originality is not a driving factor in this generation of star wars ,it looked Leia hid her away after Han bounced and her brother disappeared because her son turned to the darkside , yet she keep fighting because she is the only one with any balls,... Leia is the real mvp .... people complain a lot about the episodes 1-2-3 but at least they attempted to be original and gave us epic lightsaber battles, and for me the lightsaber battles are what really separate star wars from any other sci fi space odyssey movie
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Post by Aherk Fyyar on Jan 10, 2016 19:39:20 GMT -8
Hooooooooo, boy, this movie. It's flawed. It's derivative. It's hokey, its twists are visible from miles away, characterization is stilted and awkward at times, and the deus ex machina ending of R2 having the map all along was a total cop-out. But good God DAMN do I love it.
Let's talk about the story for a second. There's no getting around it; this is a reboot of ANH at its core. Lone droid carries vital information to a stranger on a desert planet and whisks the stranger away into a strange new world against the forces of darkness aboard a spherical superweapon of unparalleled destruction...yeah, we've heard this one before. But rather than try to plod on and pretend to be its own thing, TFA makes absolutely no secret of its derivative nature, and one scene in particular drives the point home, and I love it for that. It knows we've seen this story before, and in a way it helps us to grow attached to the characters; by rehashing a story, we know we can ignore the broad strokes and focus on the finer points, which is where this movie's strength truly lies.
The characters for instance. The characters feel alive in a way that so many characters I've seen and read these days don't. They're ordinary people (mostly) in extraordinary situations, and their humanity really helped to make me care for them as such. And the way they interact with one another only serves to inject the film with even more life. Rey and Finn play off each other beautifully, Finn and Poe may well be the new standard for bromance, Kylo Ren being Creepy Poser Vader works with his characterization pretty well (though, admittedly, it took me a while to come around to him), and I might've squeezed my fiancee's hand a little tighter than usual when I saw Han and Leia reunite on screen. There's just such a reality to each interaction, and none of it seems forced, awkward, or emotionless (coming off the prequel trilogy, that's a feat in and of itself). They're all pretty neat individually. Their goals and their wants are pretty simple to understand and get behind. And there's enough nuance to them that they could probably hold down a corner of the story by their lonesome. But when they're together, it's a sight to behold. It sounds a little Avengers-y, but...it's kind of true. There are a couple hiccups (C-3PO, for instance), but nothing unforgivable. And big, big points to the nonverbal characters, who made it work, and made it work good.
Then there's the action. All the Star Wars hallmarks were here, in all their Star Wars-y glory. Gunfights, dogfights, swordfights, the works. Nothing to really write home about, with none of the flash or pizzazz of the prequels, but definitely good fun to see. This is where the movie played it safest. Which isn't to say it wasn't exciting; I was on the edge of my seat for the dogfights, especially. But there wasn't anything groundbreaking, like TPM's 2-on-1 fight. There wasn't anything really huge in scale, like ROTS's opening space battle. With with one very, VERY notable exception (gold star for you, TR-8R), the ground battle was by far the weakest action setpiece. Again, not to say it was bad, it just didn't have me super-invested.
But as I said, it's very much a flawed film. Flawed in many ways like the old films, so I largely give it a pass, but there are some things I can't ignore much as I may try. The old droids, for instance. C-3PO's only meaningful scene interjects him into a sweet reunion in a jarring fashion, and R2-D2 is in the movie solely to provide the final piece to a puzzle that BB-8 knew he had from the get-go. They genuinely have no further use in the story, and they really did deserve better than this; it would have been better to save their appearances for the sequel and let them really get the exposure and respect that the big three of the first three got. Rey, much as I love her, I'm also dinging. Force sensitive or not, new generation or not, she's good at way too much, way too quickly. Never flown an actual ship in her life? Outflies two Imperial pilots in the fastest ship in the galaxy by dodging Star Destroyer debris. No inkling of Force potential? Outmatches and outfights a guy who's been training to do both for a good bit of time (and took a shot from Chewie's BFG and stayed standing, no less). Hallmark of a Star Wars protagonist, perhaps? I mean, it's nothing Anakin or Luke didn't do in their first adventures. But with Rey it just seems so accelerated, like they're trying to shove three movies' worth of talent into the second half of this one. And as far as the plot goes, "destroying the big ass enemy stronghold in space" is the plot for three of the last six films. Let's do something new, eh?
Overall, I loved it. Flaws and all.
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Post by Kali Helaine on Jan 11, 2016 5:30:00 GMT -8
The way I perceived Kylo was extremely insecure and when seeing him this way his actions and failing seemed logical. My reasons for perceiving him that way are, the Darth Vader helmet: It made him appear to idolise him to the extent of wanting to model himself on him and make him proud, this puts alot of pressure on him as well as making him extremely vulnerable, each failure is going to break his self esteem more. He came across as though he felt abandoned. Leia and Han made it sound like he turned to the to the darkside quite late in age? Having the legacy he does have seemed to weigh heavy upon his shoulders while at the same time desperately wishing he was treated with equal respect and fear as that of Vader. He also appears to be only part way through his training with Snoke. As I viewed him in this way, he seemed like a spoiled, temper tantrum prone brat, but it was logical.
In all honestly had he been a total badass equally as good or surpassing Vader, I would have been dissapointed. There were flaws in the film but I loved it!
oh, and Han dying....I was absolutely devastated and wept like a baby to the point of being comforted by 9 year old nephew...
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Post by John Darklight on Jan 12, 2016 22:26:32 GMT -8
Let's discuss the title & what we discovered about the Force in this film. For those who have seen the film you would understand why it is called The Force Awakens. My question is can someone who is force sensitive learn to use it without proper training or has not been affected by the force in any way, like having a Darksider force info from you for example or touching a saber and getting visions of the past. Rey grew powerful very quickly in such a short time span, she didn't have training but she did encounter objects and people powerful with the force which i guess Awakened her power.
Now i don't think we should get confused with her natural reflexes and other enhanced abilities because of the force. I feel this movie gave us more depth to the idea of the Force and i think it's a very important expansion to the canonverse. I don't know if it was canon before in the films or books but I didn't know an object such as a Lightsaber hilt could trigger something like a Force vision based on where the weapon has been, who it's been with and the deep message behind the vision. If it's been used like this in the past, correct me if I'm wrong.
Back to the point i was originally trying to get out. If Rey never got off of Jaku and the same goes with Luke on Tattooine, would their force powers come naturally? Like the pressure inside a wine bottle before the cork pops out. I guess it would creep up on them and lose control if that was the case. But honestly my take on the title is implying that you need experience one way or another, wether it be trying to push someone out of your mind or basic training in the force. One who has trained since his/hers youngling years would become stronger with age and experience, but one who is force sensitive and has never used the force, would need their powers to be awoken, triggered by something or someone. Though, she is just as powerful as she would of been if she started her training at a young age. So it sounds like the force grows stronger with age or experience, or both, with or without training. I don't think it's only because she's a possible Skywalker.
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Post by Rik Vane on Jan 17, 2016 10:43:34 GMT -8
How do we know Rey never had any training? She could very easily have been one of the other students training with Luke at his new jedi academy prior to Ren's destruction of it. Ren is roughly ten years older than her (according to wookieepedia), so the timeline makes sense. He would have been about her age when he went ballistic on the jedi, and she would have still been in the single digits (which fits the brief scene of her being dropped off on Jakku). It could be that she's the only student to survive the massacre (or whatever it was), and Luke buried her memories of her training and family in order to hide her from Ren and Snoke.
So in the end, when she's able to focus and finally grasp the force with intent, she's not just doing so for the very first time in her life. She's finally starting to remember the things she'd been taught all those years ago when she was a student at Luke's new academy. In that context, her proficiency and power begin to make a bit more sense. Anakin was already a phenomenal mechanic and pilot by the time he was roughly Rey's age when she got abandoned on Jakku. Is it really that much of a stretch to believe that with some training, she could be just as good as Anakin by that point in her life? And then simply retained and cultivated her non-force skills over the years she lived on Jakku?
I say no. It's entirely believable when taken in this particular context, as is her apparent proficiency with force skills later on in the movie.
Oh, and as for Ren not snagging Chewie's shot out of the air with the force? The dude just murdered his own father, and we were repeatedly shown how emotionally unstable he is. The guy was a wreck when Chewie lost it, and it is completely understandable that he wouldn't snap out of it until something painful and debilitating (like, say, an explosive bolt to the abdomen) forced him to.
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