Gaiscioch Dearg
Adventists of the Eye
Posts: 107
Affiliation: New Order of the Eye - Warriors of the Iron Fists
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Post by Gaiscioch Dearg on Sept 12, 2014 7:59:27 GMT -8
Why did Obi not train Luke while they were on Tatooine?
The twins were hidden from the Emperor and Vader for various reasons. Leia was reallllllly well hidden on Alderaan with a new family and raised in a powerful family. Luke... Luke was hidden on Tatooine, the planet Vader had lived on for a good chunk of his life, and visited recently before his sons birth. He was also handed over to his Aunt and Uncle, people that Vader himself had met and interacted with. Not so well hidden lol.
Now I know that it was stated in one of the Vader books that Tatooine was chosen as a hiding place because he would never go back. Too many painful memories and things like that. But that does not explain to me why he had to be given over to the Lars family. There were a lot of Jedi in the EU that survived Order 66 and continued to use the force and do their own thing so force detection was not a big problem. So why could Luke not be trained? He was already hidden on a planet that Vader was avoiding as if it had the Rakghoul Plague, so their chances of being detected were already low. Plus I'm sure the Emperor and his Hands were not SO good as to pinpoint the force energy they were giving off SOMEWHERE on on the massive sandbox that is Tatooine. So what was the danger? Why not take 19 interruption free years and train Luke to be at least near Knight level??
Now I don't know if this has been discussed before, or if it has been explained in a book/comic, but I am going to ask anyways. It's been a big question on my mind for years and I just saw someone on YouTube ask the same question. So I'm hoping my knowledgeable fellow SW nerdy friends can come up with a kickass logical solution for me :D
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Xeonon Solomon
The First Order
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Affiliation: First Order
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Post by Xeonon Solomon on Sept 12, 2014 15:13:46 GMT -8
I was thinking this the other day. Particularly the first paragraph. It seems like poor planning but maybe it comes down to Owen and Beru didnt want Luke to follow in his fathers footsteps. I have a feeling that Obi Wan would want permission because of some old code he still adhered to. He should have just kept Luke with him and trained, as far as I know he didnt do a whole lot after the Fall but its been a while since I used Wookiee
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Post by The Admiralty OOC on Sept 16, 2014 8:26:16 GMT -8
Short recap version? Owen was Not Happy with how involved 'Crazy Ben' was with the whole series of events leading to Vader going dark (possibly resulting from Shimi telling stories about what a good little boy "Anni" was combined with the 'I kill whole tribes' Jedi that showed up on their doorstep). So Owen blamed Obi-wan for Vader going dark. Obi-wan was depressed about the whole thing & didn't dispute it. So Owen told Obi-Wan not to interact with Luke.
Also tying into that is the (vaguely weird & possibly only semi-canon) comic where Maul survived & then hunted Luke down on Tat, Obi-Wan stepped in (Obi-Wan had apparently spent most of the day just hanging out at the farm, buried under a loose pile of sand) & killed him. Owen decided enough was enough (as he hadn't know that Obi-Wan was being all creeper like in his front yard) & outright told Obi-Wan not to come anywhere close to the farm again or Owen would shoot Obi-Wan.
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Erly Ryzer
Member
Chilli Cheese Fries, please...
Posts: 181
Affiliation: CorSec (Formerly)
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Post by Erly Ryzer on Sept 20, 2014 21:28:14 GMT -8
Unfortunately, while I actually prefer that as canon myself, what Admiralty said, George Lucas had claimed, once the Clone Wars animated series had come out, that anything else from the comics or even the novels should be regarded as non-canon. :/
In the series, Darth Maul indeed survived, but was meshed with technology to give him limbs back. He'd gone partially insane. Also, unlike the comic version where Kenobi ultimately killed Maul, Watto also survived past the whole two trilogies. In the comic, Maul beheaded Watto after interrogating him for the whereabouts of Luke Skywalker.
So thanks to the Clone Wars, and George Lucas' constantly changing mind, that comic is no longer considered canon anymore. It's why many writers and novelists went on strike against George. He literally made years of hard work become non-canon material just because he wanted canonicity to remain with the films and animated shows. Really sucky and douchebag move in my opinion.
That said, I agree with Xeonon Solomon. Unlike some Jedi post-Order 66, Obi-Wan Kenobi adhered to many strict codes of conduct becoming of the Jedi, and held on to many principles and concepts belonging to the old ways. Therefore, under that code, since Obi-Wan entrusted the care of Luke to Owen and Beru, rather than raise the boy himself, if Owen didn't want "that crazy old man" anywhere near Luke, he'd be bound by honor to respect that request. Though he remained just close enough to make sure nothing untoward happened to Luke.
Also, I believe at the same time, Obi-Wan needed some alone time to conduct his new training for himself, per the instructions of Yoda after the events of Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, where they both learnt how to commune with one who was already dead to the physical forms, but alive in spirit, Qui-Gon Jinn. I think trying to look after an infant child of the Poorly Chosen One while meditating simultaneously would put a serious hindrance to his training. Children need constant care, even special Jedi children. So it was one or the other. I think therefore, he saw a dual need for the Lars family. It's possible that maybe after he finished his training, he tried to get permission from Owen to train Luke as a Jedi, as if I recall correctly, Owen referred to Ben as a "meddling old fool", which suggests that Obi-Wan had visited the Lars family at some point, or maybe even a few times. But as Xeonon said, if Owen rebuffed him, I don't think it'd be characteristic of Obi-Wan to try and use a Mind Trick on them to get his way. That is the way of the Dark Side, after all, and Obi-Wan was almost pure Light Side.
My other theory is that Obi-Wan felt emotionally compromised and very, very wearied from his years of constant strife and battles. He was the first Jedi to confront a Sith in thousands of years, or a thousand years at least, and had been in no less than two wars, the second one, the Clone Wars being one that lasted many, many years. And in the very end, it was all an elaborate, galaxy-wide hoax that was used by the complicated and funky Sith to feed on the fears and anger of the people, while severely undermining the Jedi every step of the way. The amount of times that Obi-Wan had been captured, tortured and put into all kinds of situations, as well as watching Duchess Satine of the Mandalorians die right before him while he was powerless to protect her, plus the added stress of training the prophesied Chosen One, who was really a handful, as he was very cocky and arrogant during his Padawan years, and which ultimately became the greatest tool that was used to betray the Jedi from within, and instead of bringing salvation, Anakin brought destruction.
I think all these experiences, and no matter how strong willed a person may be, will take its toll on their mind, heart and body. And since Obi-Wan personally trained Anakin, he quite likely feels responsible for what happened during Order 66, and may have lost his faith in his ability to teach anyone, so instead of caring for Luke himself, he gave Luke to Owen and Beru, while he went off to contemplate things. After many years, maybe he found a form of peace, and also finished his training to become One With The Force once his physical lifespan reached its pinnacle, so he considered risking another chance with another Skywalker, but by this time, Owen doesn't trust Obi-Wan, because he'd seen what kind of havoc Force Users can wreak on the universe (The Empire), and it don't matter to him whether they're Jedi or Sith, they're all one and the same to him.
So that's my theory on why Obi-Wan never trained Luke until they met again with R2-D2 and C-3PO. Though Luke seemed particularly potent and more talented than his father in some ways.
Also, the irony was that the Jedi misunderstood the concept of Balance In The Force. That meant there should be an equal amount of light and dark, if all the Sith were wiped out, then there'd be just Light, and thusly, an imbalance. So, since Darth Vader betrayed and killed thousands of Jedi in his time, bringing the total amount of Jedi and Sith to an almost equal amount, and with Vader's subsequent redemption by throwing the Emperor down a shaft to his death, Anakin did fulfill the prophecy, didn't he? Plus there WERE still Jedi of the Old Order that survived right past Return of the Jedi, as well as dark siders, so taking that into consideration, I'd say the balance was technically restored.
And then the following Skywalkers just HAD to imbalance things again with their sheer awesomeness, but that's really another matter entirely. Focusing on the topic at hand, what I said above, that's what I think is the reason for Obi-Wan not training Luke earlier on. He was emotionally compromised and probably lost faith in himself, or feared training Luke to become another Vader.
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Galdaart Fel
Retired High Councilor
...not hiding anymore
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Post by Galdaart Fel on Sept 26, 2014 15:43:31 GMT -8
I agree with, and respect the views already stated above, and will add only that in the most Jedi / Zen-like way, there is a time for everything.
Obi-Wan did not have to appease Owen Lars' wish to remain outside Luke's life. He'll, if he'd wanted to, he could have started training Jedi right there in the Jundland wastes.
But there was a penance to be paid. Reflection and study and meditation on the losses of the Great War. And there was time to wait until the war could be waged anew. And Obi-Wan was a very patient man.
You can hear the coercion in his voice: 'You must learn the ways of the Force, if you're to come with me to Alderaan.' --Obi Wan knew in that moment that there is a time for everything, and that the time was upon him in that instant.
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Post by Jensin Kal on Oct 5, 2014 9:12:47 GMT -8
I gotta agree with you on that one, sounds just about right. Has anyone watched the Star wars Rebels episode spark of rebellion? I'm nearing the end of A New Dawn, the book which occurs before the show and I have to say both are extremely well done, i feel as if it's the first piece of work created that feels so much like the original films since their release. Right now it don't seem to good about turning things into non canon but i believe something good will come out of this. Also, the next book after A New Dawn is called Star wars: Tarkin'' So that's something to look forward to.
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