Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 26, 2015 18:45:48 GMT -8
Then you've called Corr a PGer then. Which last anyone checked has been doing his thing for years without cheating blatantly. He's the template, and uses half if less than the normal 10 power allowance. All I'm saying is not becoming wholly dependent on them. Leaving them the option of training and/or developing their character IC and OOC without the social stigma and being given a chance to choose. That's all I want to see accomplished. Not Jedi/Mando Cross-class amalgamations via D&D. OOC the war stopped because someone (who shall remain nameless) slut shamed a particular group and they left. IC we had to come up with something on the fly because the story flopped because of said group leaving. The time was right OOC, but certain individuals were feeling a little butthurt that they weren't being included (Whom again shall remain nameless). I hope you can see this isn't some attempt to PG, but I do see your merits of potentially or actually being exploited. I wish there was a way I could convince you this is on the level, but the only means I have is through a text based site. Which is really hard to do. I understand this looks like someone trying to create some unbeatable fighting machines but it's not. Not completely, and by not completely I mean keeping it fair to all on the site. I am trying to find a way to put a cap on Force-using Mandos. To keep it level without everyone and their mother trying to become a beskar-clad Jedi. Which means more involvement at a group level. Believe it or not I truly value your opinion and your debating me. I just want to get individuals whom have left the group to become something else to return or at least consider returning. I hope this has made my position a little clearer?
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Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Feb 26, 2015 20:05:17 GMT -8
OOC the war stopped because someone (who shall remain nameless) slut shamed a particular group and they left. Just want to point out, that there is no need to beat around the bush about the fact that Jade was the first to point out the shortfalls of the Yavin group, and by extension, the Jedi Order as a whole at the time. To be fair though, there was a good handful of people that actually got involved with that, and I think we are all grown up enough to use names. Besides, I'm trying to unify ALL of Aliit Skirata, which includes Honoghr AND evolve our people. OK, I swear to god, the next time someone starts claiming: 1. they know there is members of Clan Skirata on Honoghr and/or 2. that Honoghr is joining the Mando's/Republic/Empire/CIS/Hutt's/what ever I am seriously gunna bitch slap the living shit out of their character in-uni, no matter where they are, who they are, or who they think they are, or what they think they know. Seriously, as someone who is based on Honoghr, not once have either myself, or Ice, ever been contacted about this shit at any point, so before you start claiming Honoghr as your own, or as Clan Skirata's, take the time to contact the main writer's on the planet, and clear it first. Spectre, you're a good guy and all, but seriously, stop claiming what isn't yours to claim, ok? |
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 26, 2015 20:08:19 GMT -8
Clearly someone is over reacting. This is an OOC thread. Relax before you jump the gun.
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Ice Matango
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Post by Ice Matango on Feb 27, 2015 0:32:01 GMT -8
Ok, when I first saw Spectres post about uniting the Skiratas, and mention of Honoghr, I basically ignored it for the simple fact that:
#1 - There is only two Skiratas on Honoghr and that's Athyna and Keira (Athyna's younger sister and she also happens to be an NPC on Athyna's account). And guess what....Athyna is only Mandalorian by birth (meaning that she was born on Mandalore) and she's Reyn's daughter. A fact that is not being hidden seeing as how Athyna has a business on Honoghr and the Skirata name is part of the business name. Athyna, however, is not a "Mando" in the sense of how the galaxy sees Mandos and other Mandos see themselves. She wasn't raised in any of the Mando traditions, obviously doesn't follow the Reslonare, and both Athyna AND Keira are Force sensitive. IC, the only people that knows Athyna is a Forceling are a handful of chars on Honoghr - and I RP most of them too. In fact, only one other person IC knows Athyna is a Forceling and that chars writer isn't even RPing at the moment. Hell, even Reyn didn't know it when he was alive and kicking - and nobody outside of a handful of chars on Honoghr knows that Keira is a Forceling. Also, there's not a lot of people IC that even know Athyna exists because she pretty much kept to herself.
#2 - The rest of the IC world has no idea that Reyn has other descendants on the planet as there are no records, whatsoever, of the familial connections. The only ones who may have known either aren't RPing on JvS anymore or are dead IC.
#3 - Honoghr will not be joining the Mandalorians (barring any hostile takeovers/wars/things of that kind of nature/etc., of course) just because a Skirata happens to reside on the planet. I know this wasn't outright stated, but I felt it had to be addressed so there's no confusion in the future. Now that's not to say that RP wouldn't be welcome from any Mando writers, because it would be with just a simple talk in chat or a PM to Ice's or Athyna's account(s). A simple heads-up, please and thank you.
With all that said, and this is for you Spectre, Athyna most likely won't be "joining the family" because IC wise, she doesn't consider herself a Mando in the sense of how a Mando is seen in character. She's not stupid, she knows that she and Keira would be considered outcasts (even if the opinion wasn't actually voiced) in many Mandalorian's eyes if they knew both of them were Forcelings. Reyn had accepted her because she was his daughter and he loved her. Though with Reyn dead, and Brynden and Cuyan disappearing from her life, she has pretty much decided it's time to move on and build a new life for herself and Keira in a place where they would be accepted, and not judged, for their abilities.
Now if you, or any other Mando writer, still want to do a SL - then by all means, just shoot me a PM and we will discuss it.
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 27, 2015 0:49:51 GMT -8
Ice we covered this before, I knew it would take time and such but it would be handled at a later time. This wasn't permanent nor was it a binding agreement but something I wanted to bring up to you in due time. Unfortunately this was forced by an over-reaction by a misinterpretation by Zion. I would be glad to further this idea with Reyn and you as well. I only wish to extend this amnesty to those that are Skirata, not take over Honoghr. Which we both talked about. When Spectre learns of (through legitimate RPing ) Athyna and others he will extend to them the possibility of going to their spiritual home of Kyrimorut. This doesn't excuse Zion's Bullying by any measure or means and as a Guild Councilor, that should have been addressed as well. Since you won't I will. To the Whills. Whatever evil I was presumed guilty of is excused by Zion's Bullying and giving ultimatums.
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Ice Matango
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Post by Ice Matango on Feb 27, 2015 1:01:04 GMT -8
I can't speak for Zion, but his post has merits also, though yes he could've went about it another way. I don't think it's bullying when someone states their opinions on a matter, but do what you must if it makes you feel better. That word has been thrown around a lot lately when someone has an opinion different from someone else's.
Also, my post wasn't just for you but for everyone. We went through this with the Republic a while back because of promises made by someone else. Yes, you and I have discussed this particular subject before, and I had hoped to get a PM at least before it was discussed on an OOC board.
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 27, 2015 1:06:14 GMT -8
I can't speak for Zion, but his post has merits also, though yes he could've went about it another way. I don't think it's bullying when someone states their opinions on a matter, but do what you must if it makes you feel better. That word has been thrown around a lot lately when someone has an opinion different from someone else's.
Also, my post wasn't just for you but for everyone. We went through this with the Republic a while back because of promises made by someone else. Yes, you and I have discussed this particular subject before, and I had hoped to get a PM at least before it was discussed on an OOC board. |
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Aerandir Calmcacil
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Post by Aerandir Calmcacil on Feb 27, 2015 1:26:00 GMT -8
Since an IR was written, I suggest everyone let this be and all discussion revert back to the previous topic.
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Post by Reyn Skirata on Feb 27, 2015 7:59:23 GMT -8
Ok, when I first saw Spectres post about uniting the Skiratas, and mention of Honoghr, I basically ignored it for the simple fact that:
#1 - There is only two Skiratas on Honoghr and that's Athyna and Keira (Athyna's younger sister and she also happens to be an NPC on Athyna's account). And guess what....Athyna is only Mandalorian by birth (meaning that she was born on Mandalore) and she's Reyn's daughter. A fact that is not being hidden seeing as how Athyna has a business on Honoghr and the Skirata name is part of the business name. Athyna, however, is not a "Mando" in the sense of how the galaxy sees Mandos and other Mandos see themselves. She wasn't raised in any of the Mando traditions, obviously doesn't follow the Reslonare, and both Athyna AND Keira are Force sensitive. IC, the only people that knows Athyna is a Forceling are a handful of chars on Honoghr - and I RP most of them too. In fact, only one other person IC knows Athyna is a Forceling and that chars writer isn't even RPing at the moment. Hell, even Reyn didn't know it when he was alive and kicking - and nobody outside of a handful of chars on Honoghr knows that Keira is a Forceling. Also, there's not a lot of people IC that even know Athyna exists because she pretty much kept to herself.
#2 - The rest of the IC world has no idea that Reyn has other descendants on the planet as there are no records, whatsoever, of the familial connections. The only ones who may have known either aren't RPing on JvS anymore or are dead IC.
#3 - Honoghr will not be joining the Mandalorians (barring any hostile takeovers/wars/things of that kind of nature/etc., of course) just because a Skirata happens to reside on the planet. I know this wasn't outright stated, but I felt it had to be addressed so there's no confusion in the future. Now that's not to say that RP wouldn't be welcome from any Mando writers, because it would be with just a simple talk in chat or a PM to Ice's or Athyna's account(s). A simple heads-up, please and thank you.
With all that said, and this is for you Spectre, Athyna most likely won't be "joining the family" because IC wise, she doesn't consider herself a Mando in the sense of how a Mando is seen in character. She's not stupid, she knows that she and Keira would be considered outcasts (even if the opinion wasn't actually voiced) in many Mandalorian's eyes if they knew both of them were Forcelings. Reyn had accepted her because she was his daughter and he loved her. Though with Reyn dead, and Brynden and Cuyan disappearing from her life, she has pretty much decided it's time to move on and build a new life for herself and Keira in a place where they would be accepted, and not judged, for their abilities.
Now if you, or any other Mando writer, still want to do a SL - then by all means, just shoot me a PM and we will discuss it. and Reyn loves them both still, even in Manda, and actually Cuyan might come visit sometime, you've given me an RP idea. When I first came to JvS many years ago, force using mandos were rampant and largely unquestioned. Being non force actually made me unusual. Through years of work I, and others I convinced, made the force using Mando the rare one. They still existed certainly, but generally kept a low profile. If you don't believe me, ask any of the veterans who know my work. You may have the best of intentions, and that's fine, but I can tell you from long experience mixing the two doesn't work out well. If you want to be a mandalorian, be a mandalorian. If you want to use the force, go use the force in any of the dozen or more force using groups, or make up a new force using group and do that. You'll be better off that way. |
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 27, 2015 9:04:35 GMT -8
I see your merits Reyn, and that's the part I want to heal. The bad taste from days of old. I agree with keeping them covert, like a Special Forces elite and keeping them to under the standards of 10 powers. 4 or 5 at the most. So we don't repeat the old FB days. I would like to keep the ability of having options open. Sure you can be a Mando, sure you can use the Force but you shouldn't be shunned because of it. Keep it contained and low-key and it should work. Should another PC come on create a Mando that isn't created with said guidelines to keep it low-key, then we will help guide him/her in the right direction. No ultimatums, just friendly guidance. That's all. This can work and it seems by convincing you to step in with some creative control we can both make it work. At least I hope so.
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Post by Reyn Skirata on Feb 27, 2015 10:18:21 GMT -8
You don't need force powers to be competitive. Mandalorians are already as elite as soldiers can be. I understand your desire, I really do, and I am not in charge to make the decision, but what I will say is what little respect the mandalorians command will disappear like chaff in the wind if you start promoting this. This issue is not just IC or OOC, it crosses the entire breadth of the RP identity.
Say you're playing Pathfinder for instance, and you're playing a fighter. Now come in and give the fighter a few 0-level and maybe a 1-level spell with a level in wizard. Is he still a fighter?
Most people would argue not, he's become a hybrid, and now because you've taken the level in wizard, you're less of a fighter than you could have been otherwise.
Mando's don't need force powers, that's part of their core appeal. Being badass without them. Take that away by giving them force, the sum total is lessened. I've defeated legendary dark jedi without an ounce of force power. SW and a decent set of wits offers plenty of options that even the playing field instead of just throwing force powers on it.
Also, if you want to be a force using mando, having to keep quiet adds to RP instead of subtracting from it. The fear of getting discovered and whether or not you will be accepted the same.
I've seen this so many times before, and I want the mandalorians to succeed, as I always have, whether i've been active here or not, I have so many good memories with the mandalorians. But the mandalorians can succeed on their own merits, and if they can't then they shouldn't, as Kad wills.
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 27, 2015 10:39:13 GMT -8
And they are totally elite without the Force. But comparing Pathfinder and this site is comparing apples to oranges tbh.
I have no doubt you've defeated legendary Dark Jedi. I used to be one before they called 2.0, 1.5. I remember, but not whom you did defeat. A little foggy on that.
I agree on keeping it quiet, but taking the taboo away doesn't lessen anything. That's why(With Corrs help via FB) I am hoping to have an off the books spec ops group. Just because the taboo is lifted it doesn't mean they will openly use it. If they do, it's an admission of weakness on their behalf to wholly depend on it. Like Jedi, etc, etc... All Mando's shouldn't be ashamed of how they were born. But that's just my opinion.
I want the Mando'ade to succeed as well, and I can see that you want this too. Full-time, Part-time or no-time. This dialogue has been a great help and shows me just how much more I need to do to convince others that this is a good thing to give it another chance under watchful guidance. If I can't win you endorsement, then at least I hope you know this will change only a little. Not the whole group. We need good PR since the whole crusade failure. Which is what I am steering the groups towards eventually. The Taboo comes first. xD
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Post by Reyn Skirata on Feb 27, 2015 11:01:22 GMT -8
Pyros, Reign, and Targus, but thats neither here nor there at this point. It was a long time ago and i was much better then.
The problem with that is that all mandalorian warriors in the modern GFFA are spec ops troopers. in canon there's something like 6 million mandos in the galaxy, the huge sweeping armies of the crusaders and neo-crusaders are long gone. This is another fight i've had to have. 1000 mandalorian warriors is a massive commitment of resources in the present GFFA. That's just how things work these days.
Also, if you make an "off the book" spec ops group of force sensitive mandos, then you are doing basically the worst thing you could do, and that is exactly what the galaxy does, treat force users as special and as "better" than others. Mandalorians inherently tend toward egalitarianism, and the nature of the force flies in the face of that.
Basically, Force users are special because they have special blood. Basically they are born as "more" than others, and when it comes to mandalorian culture, Meg striil n'oyakari
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 27, 2015 11:25:52 GMT -8
No one is to be treated special. Even though it says Special Ops. xD. I know we are all equal, with the exception to the taboo. Which is what I'm trying to do. Even all across the board.
For all Mando'ade. We just have an Ace up our sleeve. They will function as normal until the need arrives to utilize them like a well placed Sniper or Flanking maneuver on a tank.
Ah, Targus and Reign I remember, Pyros isn't ringing any Bells. xD
Force-users may have more, but not in our culture. They just have an ace up their sleeve.
Which I don't plan on fighting any Jedi so they can find out. Maybe against Dark-siders, but then we'll have to do everything in our power to keep them from divulging the secret, which means they'll have to fight to the death. Which will lead to very interesting RP I think. Kill the dar'jetii before they can blab. xD
The next crusade should be against slavers. It would give us better PR.
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Post by Reyn Skirata on Feb 27, 2015 11:35:55 GMT -8
I have always supported destroying slavers. I also support tending to the needs of our world and people over going to war just for the sake of war. Mandalorians are more like Proud Soldier Race Guys these days in the GFFA then they used to be. Conquest isn't really a thing we need to worry about.
Our armor, cultural weaponry, espirit de corps, and skill at asymmetric warfare are our aces in the hole, and there are only four aces in a deck after all. If you want to improve mandalorian warfare, institute a military academy of sorts, and recreate the mandalorian protectors, the closest thing to a standing army the modern mandalorians have. I am willing to help in that regard, but I will under no circumstance support a promotion of force using within the clans. It makes no sense IC or OOC as mandalorians to do so.
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on Feb 27, 2015 11:58:09 GMT -8
An official war is far off. Right now, I am with a group going to Kessel to liberate some slaves that Atia shipped on Draykon's Ship. So I am slowly building to an unofficial war that turns into an official one. Kashyyyk is next.
I would love to have a military academy and bring back the Protectors. That is a great Idea.
As for the training Force-use Spec ops, I'll call this a draw and focus on the taboo for now. I know it won't be easy to win anyone over, but I feel we can find a middle ground eventually. Call me optimistic. xD
Since we have our aces up our sleeves I'll call them wild cards. xD
The only choice it seems I have is to keep them from being discovered as known users. Until I can get a general Amnesty. xD I won't give up. xD
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Turlon
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Post by Turlon on Feb 27, 2015 15:16:59 GMT -8
Not a mando but here's my 2 cents.
I don't see as much of a big deal about it, although percentage chances of a Mandolorian being a strong force sensitive is already small so it doesn't have to be a lot.
To not use every possible means necessary; and especially one that doesn't cost any lives to use, in order to further protect the lives of your men, to not do so is just not thinking fully logically. And to be held back base on antiquated cultural tradition puts you at a disadvantage no matter how you try to spin it.
It could be just like government does, an off the books operation that all but few Mandos even know exist. They don't even have to be super powerfull, they can just maybe be able to use light telekenesis in stressful situations or something
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Post by Reyn Skirata on Feb 27, 2015 16:38:16 GMT -8
I appreciate your .02$ but we didn't ask for a penny. Do you think I haven't heard all this before? That I haven't considered all of these things? Trust me when I tell you I have, and there are reasons for it. If he wants to go that way, fine, but do not expect people to respect that decision. That's what it's all about. Expect people not to trust a Mand'alor who does this.
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Turlon
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Post by Turlon on Feb 27, 2015 17:01:33 GMT -8
Well this is a Public Forum, after all. I appreciate your sarcasm.
As someone who has RP'ed on this site on and off since 2008, I'm sure people that are similarly minded to me would appreciate my input.
Heil Manda!
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Post by Reyn Skirata on Feb 27, 2015 17:25:16 GMT -8
I have also RPed on this site on and off since 2008 and almost exclusively as a mandalorian. So while I appreciate your time served, it does not cow me. This is my area of expertise, and has been for years. So I thank you for input, but it is a) redundant and  was not sought in the first place. I as a former Mandalore was discussing a mandalorian issue with the current Mandalore. Vor'e burc'ya. |
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![Zion Morviael [RETIRED] Avatar](https://i.imgur.com/WbGOLQP.jpg)
was not sought in the first place. I as a former Mandalore was discussing a mandalorian issue with the current Mandalore.