Kel'Al Raganella
The Jedi Order - Corellian Jedi Academy
Posts: 529
Affiliation: Corellian Jedi Academy
Traffic Light: Orange
|
Post by Kel'Al Raganella on May 30, 2018 21:39:19 GMT -8
I've always felt that custom tech should fall into one of two categories:
1) "I want tech that's equivalently powered to canon tech, but I want my own custom brand/version/manufacturer." In this case, you're basically cloning the canon powers and abilities of the tech, you just want it to look different. That means the specs should not exceed the capabilities of canon equivalents, and when in doubt, the capabilities should be less than the canon equivalent.
2) "I want to build a new model in an existing canon line of tech, with realistic upgrades," e.g. a new Corellian freighter in the YT line, or a new starfighter in the X-wing series. In that case, you should start with the canon specs (if there are multiple older versions, from which a trend can be derived, that's even better), and make small additions or changes in certain areas. If you want larger modifications, then you need to substitute some features by adding/removing others, for example making a ship longer to carry more people, or adding bigger engines to compensate for more weight. The end result, your YT-1310 or whatever, would have better specs than the YT-1300 it's replacing, but those specs should still be in line with other canon equivalents, e.g. the YT-2400 or a non-Corellian freighter of equivalent size. In other words, you can't customize your way to a new release in a canon line of ships that exceeds all canon examples for the ship class, but you can exceed that specific model's current canon specs.
When I used to build custom tech for the Corellians, these were the rules of thumb I (usually) used, even going back to JvS 1.0.
|
|
Non-Com Or'dinii
Member
Posts: 461
Affiliation: Mandalorian Clan Or'dinii
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Non-Com Or'dinii on May 30, 2018 22:01:42 GMT -8
Both rules prevent completely new creations. While it is certainly simpler and usually cheaper, barring legal copyright battles, to follow either or both rules, some people, like TA and I, are fond making things that fit the aesthetic of mandolorian culture, and particularly the Infinite Imperium, our not so little segment of the mandolorian empire. There is next to zero canon precedent for modern mandolorian craft; so following those rules prevents us from doing anything more than upgrading ships we have little use for as the original was designed to fill a mission role for an expanding empire which has very different needs than the ME or the II today.
Your rules of thumb are great, but make permitting original creations difficult. I don't want to do that. I would like to see reskinned, upgraded, and new gear on the boards. Though I'd also expect more from someone wanting to make something completely new, than someone trying to build a new corellian freighter.
|
|
Mike Frantz
Databank Operations
That Guy
Posts: 712
Affiliation: The Jedi Order
|
Post by Mike Frantz on May 31, 2018 7:49:34 GMT -8
I would disagree. The first "rule" allows for the creation of custom craft and new creations. It just binds anything like that to current standards. You could make a custom Mandalorian Bucket cruiser so long as you maintained similar armament to a similarly sized canon ship.
|
|
Kel'Al Raganella
The Jedi Order - Corellian Jedi Academy
Posts: 529
Affiliation: Corellian Jedi Academy
Traffic Light: Orange
|
Post by Kel'Al Raganella on Jun 1, 2018 12:42:27 GMT -8
Actually, creating tech for the Mandalorians to fill in some of the gaping holes in what is available in canon is a great example of what I had in mind. That should be 100% legal, you would just need to make sure that your new Mando ships were equivalently powered to non-Mando canon examples.
|
|
|
Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Jun 2, 2018 11:57:36 GMT -8
basically you could design a custom/new Mandalorian ship, just so long as it wasn't more powerful than an Imp II or a Palleon, for example. At least, that's how I understand Kel'Als idea, but correct me if I am wrong?
As far as having the registry goes: it is two fold. It serves as a place for people to post their idea so that they can refer back to their creation. It would also serve as a database people could search through and then contact a creator to see if they could use a piece of tech in there. It would also serve as a place for people to link to when wanting an audit done on something if it was too OP/Misused.
I'll be honest, I don't 100% understand all the possible settings for Wiki's, but maybe there is some way where a page could be submitted for review. The team reviews it, then passes it into publication? Such a system might help prevent edit wars by requiring edits to go through an approval process?
as far as point 2 is concerned: trade-offs are a great idea. I discussed something with Nicademus once, where stats were broken down to Attack, Defence, and Speed. Basically the more you had in one category, the less you had in the other two.
|
|
|
Post by Nicademus Delvardus IV on Jun 3, 2018 14:38:21 GMT -8
There are a lot of canon ships that need specs, which is why we hope to make a database, where players can propose and discussion specs for ships without any or that have little in terms of information. Ships that factions and groups such as the Mandalorians and Hutts can use as I have seen plenty of ships for those respective groups that cannot be used or would surely cause hesitation as we don't know their arsenal, size and other necessary details.
|
|
Ja'Sean Tabr Raddekh
Beta Team
Freedom and security are not separate. To have one is to have the other, know them both well.
Posts: 171
Affiliation: Ysanna (pron EEE-Sahn-Ah), Grey Jedi, Jedi
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Ja'Sean Tabr Raddekh on Jun 3, 2018 19:55:17 GMT -8
Well... One thing I would suggest, especially that a lot of effort is given toward military hardware and production, is that there be some kind of consultation on it since there are at least a few people on here that I know are, or were military, myself included. Obviously, as long as no sensitive (aka classified) information is revealed, I think that it would be beneficial to draw upon our experience and technical knowledge to not only make craft and tools that have a basis in fact, thought out a few generations or so, but would also make the use of these things equally as legitimate. This would also include things such as custom fleet and unit dispositions, weapon load outs, tactics, etc.
I've often drawn on my own job knowledge for a fair number of things I have in my world's arsenal. Granted, it has been to the ire of some, though I generally consider it understandable since it has largely been by people outside the military and don't have the same understanding and familiarity that any of us that have served do when it comes to these things. To that end, I'd like to call upon all my brothers and sisters in arms, not just in the US military, to help in this aspect... if there are no objections.
|
|
Shaman Chill
Administrator
Stay frosty, my friends!
Posts: 2,229
Affiliation: The Ancient Order of the Whills
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Shaman Chill on Jun 5, 2018 19:18:52 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Jul 2, 2018 18:08:51 GMT -8
So I just wanted to prove this thread to see if there was anything anyone wanted to discuss. What with some progress being made on the custom tech discussion, I figured it was worth coming back to this discussion.
Some people have mentioned making alterations to Fleet Regs, a discussion I think it would be nice to delve in to a bit more.
I also think there is still a few other rulings that need some updating and bringing to the modern day.
|
|
Viox Savage
Blackguard Imperium
"You want the same as me. My redemption, eternal ascension. Setting me free."
Posts: 2,938
Affiliation: Sith Order
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Viox Savage on Jul 12, 2018 14:21:59 GMT -8
So, in my perusal of the archives, I happened to notice a whole whack of rules that never carried over. Mind you, most of the links are still broken, so I couldn't actually view them, but in doing so, a thought crossed my mind and I wanted to pose the question here for everyone to mull over.
We, as a community, complain about how restrictive the rules are as of right now. But what makes them so restrictive in comparison to what we had in 1.5? I mean, 1.5 had a lot more restrictions on things than we currently do now. And for the most part, 1.5 worked, quite well, I might add. We had a booming population and RP was flourishing. So aside from the decline in population, what has changed so drastically between now and then, to make us feel like the rules are so restrictive now?
Honestly, it was a question that popped into my mind and I felt like I could use the community to get some feedback and maybe clarify something I'm missing or something I'm unaware of. Feel free to discuss this and post your answer, both in terms of what we seem to be lacking now and what changed between then and now, aside from the decline in population.
|
|
Viox Savage
Blackguard Imperium
"You want the same as me. My redemption, eternal ascension. Setting me free."
Posts: 2,938
Affiliation: Sith Order
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Viox Savage on Aug 14, 2018 20:36:30 GMT -8
So, in my perusal of the archives, I happened to notice a whole whack of rules that never carried over. Mind you, most of the links are still broken, so I couldn't actually view them, but in doing so, a thought crossed my mind and I wanted to pose the question here for everyone to mull over.
We, as a community, complain about how restrictive the rules are as of right now. But what makes them so restrictive in comparison to what we had in 1.5? I mean, 1.5 had a lot more restrictions on things than we currently do now. And for the most part, 1.5 worked, quite well, I might add. We had a booming population and RP was flourishing. So aside from the decline in population, what has changed so drastically between now and then, to make us feel like the rules are so restrictive now?
Honestly, it was a question that popped into my mind and I felt like I could use the community to get some feedback and maybe clarify something I'm missing or something I'm unaware of. Feel free to discuss this and post your answer, both in terms of what we seem to be lacking now and what changed between then and now, aside from the decline in population. I find it rather amusing that there has been such outrage at the "Restrictive Rules" of JvS, and yet not a single person can be bothered to post here with what was so restrictive and how we, as a community, can go about correcting it. Clearly this isn't as big of an issue as people claim it is, if this thread is any indication...
|
|
Non-Com Or'dinii
Member
Posts: 461
Affiliation: Mandalorian Clan Or'dinii
Traffic Light: Blue
|
Post by Non-Com Or'dinii on Aug 17, 2018 14:16:06 GMT -8
Or this thread is an indication that only those who are mature enough to work with/around the rules have stayed. *shrug*
|
|
Tanara Ajahn
The Organization
Posts: 249
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Tanara Ajahn on Aug 24, 2018 11:30:07 GMT -8
Oooooorrrrrr, it's because they've already posted their thoughts elsewhere and don't feel the need to post the exact same thing here, though I will concede that I know several of the people who posted in Adrien's initial thread actually have left the site.
Speaking for myself, there's not one thing I can point to and say "Here, this is the thing that explains what's wrong". In my post, I specifically said and I don't know about you, but for me it's hard to describe exactly what is wrong, or when it went wrong. And that's partially because practically every single rule and regulation we have, has a good reason behind it. They were made to address problems that we had, to curb power creep and create some kind of balance.
But, to address your question Viox, I have to ask if you've even read what people have been saying. So many of them have identified the problems they have, and what they think has changed or caused the problem. Also, I think you're drastically underestimating exactly how big of a problem declining population is. With less writers comes less creative ideas. Without the constant flow of new creative ideas, the rules become that much more of a strangulation, even if they're not meant to be.
|
|
Grand Admiral Zuhel
Blackguard Imperium
I do not require glory; only results for my Emperor.
Posts: 240
Affiliation: Blackguard Reborn
Traffic Light: Green
|
Post by Grand Admiral Zuhel on Aug 24, 2018 15:15:28 GMT -8
Alright, I feel as though I should weigh into this now, seeing as all my fellow RPAs have, and I haven’t been able to. And, there is a lot to talk about.
On one hand, I somewhat side with Viox. Many of the things that he is saying are true. Most of the rules are (in my humble opinion) fair for our purposes. There is a custom tech system that is in the works of being approved, and I feel as though aside from that, all the other rules work just fine for me. I have never noticed any “strangulation of creativity” in my time here (being a relatively newer member of the site), not have I noticed any “systematic and ingrained” problems either. So Viox, I do quite agree with you now that the custom tech is going to be in place, I don’t think there is any need to change the rules.
Cheers everyone, and let’s try to have a civilised discussion!
|
|
|
Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Aug 26, 2018 15:13:43 GMT -8
I’m hoping to do a review of each rule, see if we can find anything that needs rewording or has different wording between threads (I know of a couple).
I’m not going to wade into the discussion too much, but I feel like even if we don’t remove some, the rules could do with being a bit more user friendly (layout, uniform agreement, wording) and at the very least, a long to the Chronicler so people can have a quick review of the timeline.
|
|
|
Post by Zion Morviael [RETIRED] on Aug 11, 2019 19:36:29 GMT -8
TO THE ARCHIVE
|
|